Come Here. Go Away.

[wlotus]

CNN reports Arizona's economy is taking a massive hit, now that they've chased out many illegal immigrants. Some lawmakers even want it both ways, now: they want the people to do the work and pay the taxes, but they don't want to extend legal citizenship and the ability to bring family. I am having trouble seeing past the flaming hypocrisy to have sympathy for Arizona's economic plight.

I guess the immigrants aren't stealing jobs from Americans, after all, eh?

Comments

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Hrmph, yeah, you can work here but we don't want you having family near you, having babies, setting down roots... you know, any of that "human" stuff.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

The utter lack of humanity in much of the debate is what disgusts me the most. I have no problems with talking economics, but when people gloss over or ignore the fact that these are fellow human beings we are talking about, all I can do is shake my head in horror.

(frozen)

[rockbirthedme.livejournal.com]

*disgust* Cooked their own goose, didn't they? Idiots. As always, racism and parochialism turn out to be an expensive form of stupidity.

(frozen)

[arkadelos.livejournal.com]

How is this racism when only the illegal Mexican immigrants are being tossed out? If it targeted all Mexican-Americans regardless of citizen status, then it would be racism.

(frozen)

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

*disgust* sums up my feelings very well. I hope this is a lesson to the whole nation about how not to implement a federal law. Perhaps now some real immigration reform can start to happen on the federal level.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

Exactly!

[arkadelos.livejournal.com]

Illegal immigrants are regularly exploited below minimum wage (by citizens), and they have to pay hefty sums to be brought into this country where they are sometimes held hostage for even larger amounts (by other illegal immigrations). They are the most vulnerable because they cannot have legal protection.

And it also turns out there is a bit of sex trafficking over illegal immigration in which other illegal immigrants exploit other illegal immigrants. Not to mention drugs, but the exploiting is not limited to whites. The citizens provide the clientle, and they can be of all races.

I do believe the Arizona governor is taking a step in the right direction, but she is not taking as many steps as are necessary to prevent the exploitation. Our borders need strong security to keep illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, and citizens safe. I worked with legal Mexican immigrants at Wendy's, and they do not look favorably upon illegal immigrants.

The controversy is not limited to people of different races, either. On The New Agenda Think-Tank, there was a brief discussion about the AZ bill. The two women involved were both Mexican-Americans; one opposed the bill, and the other favored the bill.

[greenminions.livejournal.com]

Personally I think the only possible solution to this "problem" is to start fining or prosecuting the companies that exploit these HUMAN BEINGS in this fashion all to make bigger profits.

[arkadelos.livejournal.com]

Well, I agree with that.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

That is part of the law (both AZ's law and the federal law): if you knowingly hire undocumented immigrants and are caught doing it, you will be fined. That is why the steel plant owner interviewed at the start of the CNN piece fired 12 workers: they were undocumented workers, and he wanted to avoid fines. The problem is there aren't enough Americans in AZ willing and able to do the work the undocumented workers used to do before they left or were fired, so many businesses are losing money.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I bet he doesn't find anything the least bit disgusting or racist about his words, which is why he had no problem saying them in the first place.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

Russel Pierce should LISTEN to himself

Indeed. Who would Jesus deport?

WTF!

[deborahloi.livejournal.com]

I am just curious if the last lawmaker has anyone to talk to other than himself. I cannot believe that anything he said makes sense to anyone. If the whole thing were not so sad, it would be hilarious.

Did noone of any influence there not see this coming? Did nobody notice that all of the law abiding, tax-paying Mexican immigrants are leaving too? Who doesn't know that the immigration status of the true criminals is insignificant? The terrifying murders and rapists and drug dealers don't give a $%@! about immigration laws! They're not trying to get here to get jobs! They're coming here anyway. The only illegal Mexican immigrants being locked out of Arizona are the ones that truly have something to offer.

Re: WTF!

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

THANK. YOU.

[openscarf.livejournal.com]

Wow. Thank you for posting this clip. I wonder too how that politician can speak so hatefully about a race of people and NOT EVEN KNOW how completely wrong it is. That is so frightening.

He wants people to work in the plants and not be part of the community or our country. WTF?? Why wouldn't he want law abiding employed people living in his state as citizens?

And the last woman is just glossing over the racism of it all.

If I understand correctly, the Mexican population is just leaving AZ. I too hope that no one goes back to work there.

I was pissed off when people treated this law lightly and didn't look ahead to where it was leading or could lead.

It's a racist law and this new phase, is a form of slavery, I thought the same thing. Wow. I'm reposting everywhere.

GRRRRR.

[arkadelos.livejournal.com]

The current exploitation of illegal immigrants is the new slavery. Deporting them is removing them from the employers who exploit them. The video clip completely glossed over the horrible wages and terrible living conditions. It portrayed both the illegal immigrants and the steel mill owner as victims, but the steel owner was the one exploiting them

Also, the video of the Congressman was badly edited. I cannot tell what he was talking about. It could refer to anything, and his list of options sounds like a new law altogether. Does he want a reinstatement of the Bracero program to enable them to work here legally? That would be mutually beneficial to both Mexicans and Americans. Mexican citizens are still receiving comfortable pensions from American companies due to the old Bracero program.

[audrabaudra.livejournal.com]

Lord, now they want to go back to the guest worker program, which is how all of this started in the first instance.

And listen to old Russell Pearce, silly old fool. Nobody on this earth can have it all ways--hasn't he learned that yet?

Novel approach: How about just documenting the undocumented workers? It's funny how that works, see. Take illegal, undocumented workers. Add papers. And voila, they become legal, documented workers! Problem solved!

But you're right--Pearce's approach and AZ's is racist. He doesn't want "them" to settle in his state. He wants "them" to work, pay taxes, and leave. That's racist, brazen, and arrogant.

Just DOCUMENT the people already!

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

To add insult to injury--I haven't looked this up myself, yet--I am told the guest worker program would allow employers to pay less than the minimum wage, to make it more attractive to hire Mexican workers. If you document them and give them legal residency, you can't do that; you have to pay the minimum wage.

You bet this is racist, not to mention classist.

[arkadelos.livejournal.com]

As I had said earlier, I am all for enabling more people to come here legally. Mexicans do immigrate here legally, so why do these people chose to enter illegally? Because they do not apply for citizenship, it is reasonable to infer that they do not want to be citizens. What is wrong with a program that enables people to have sustainable wages, gives them more rights and better protections? And this program would document them and make them legal in this country.

[jiffyschnapps.livejournal.com]

Heh, I LOVE your icon. May I steal it?

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I stole it, so most definitely. :-)

[openscarf.livejournal.com]

It was pointed out to me that this clip is from 2008, I'm not sure if anyone above mentioned that. It certainly doesn't change much though. I did a fast look up, apparently when the federal e-verify law was being worked on, AZ passed an even harsher law that said employers of undocumented workers would lose their licenses. I think that's what this clip is about.

I don't get why as someone above said, we don't document the people that are working instead of scaring them off. It doesn't solve the criminal element and it makes good people leave. Businesses want it both ways.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you let me know. I checked quickly before posting the video, and I didn't see anything that indicated it was an old clip. If I had, I probably wouldn't have bothered to post it.

However, if this video really is two years old, it makes me wonder why AZ would pass their current anti-immigration law having had that economic backlash in 2008. Hard-headed much? That REALLY gives me a headache!

I suspect the reason why they don't simply document the people who are working is because of the same racism the State Senator Russell Pearce expressed in that video clip. He is still in office; what can possibly change with him and people of his ilk setting policy that affects immigrants?

[sixfiftytwo.livejournal.com]

I find this argument difficult to participate in.

Since it is my job to physically prevent these people from penetrating our borders.

All I can say with all certainty is that I've moved to, and considered permanently relocating to, other countries, and have always figured out how to do it legally, properly, zen. Even as a broke 19 year old.

It's not that difficult to do it right. Millions of legal immigrants do it properly every day...

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I admit I have a serious problem with the job you do.

HOWEVER, that does not stop me from feeling proud of you for getting way, way out of your comfort zone to go through the strenuous training and doing it. All of my encouragement to you stands unhindered.

It's not that difficult to do it right. Millions of legal immigrants do it properly every day.

"Difficult" is relative. A white American has a far less difficult time being accepted in other countries than a Mexican has being accepted in America's highly charged racial climate. An immigrant of means has a far less difficult time immigrating than an immigrant of no means (which is why they want to come here to begin with: to earn the money they cannot earn where they are).

But the difficulty or lack thereof of legal immigration is really a red herring. The real problem I have is the, "Get the f*** out of here, you alien beings!" attitude a lot of Americans have. We are talking about our fellow human beings, and that attitude denies them their basic humanity. It makes me sick to see/hear/read.

It would be a simple matter for employers to document their workers. It would be a simple matter for law-abiding immigrants to be given the opportunity apply for legal residency. Sure, tighten the borders, but for those who are already here, especially those who have been here, are working hard, and have not done anyone any harm, give them a fair chance to get legal residency.

And through it all, remember they are people, just like me and you.