Rethinking The God Question

[wlotus]

I am far more comfortable claiming to not know whether God exists than to admit the truth: I believe in God and am very, very angry at God for not giving me what I repeatedly requested and desperately needed. The fact that many others seemed to get that same request granted adds insult to injury.


Morressey sang, "I have forgiven Jesus." I have been trying, but so far I have not.

When people talk about our responses or our anger when God does not answer our prayers the way we want, they often say, "God knows better than us. Don't presume to know better than God." That response does not fly with me. Indeed, it deeply offends rather than comforts me. It reminds me of all the times in my childhood when influential people claimed to know my mind, feelings, and needs in opposition to what I told them they were when I sought their assistance. "You aren't hungry; you're just saying that. No, you don't have to go to the bathroom; you just went. Yes, you *are* tired. No, you aren't tired; stay awake. You aren't ill; you just have a bad attitude because your sister is getting her braces off today and you aren't."

Bullshit. I know, have always known when I need something. How dare anyone suggest I don't know what I most need at any given moment? A childhood of that meant by the time I reached adulthood I was completely out of touch with my own feelings and would believe whatever someone I perceived as powerful told me I was "really" feeling. I am *still* working on regaining my confidence in knowing my own mind, owning my feelings, and discerning my needs without deferring to someone else's interpretations of my needs. "Don't presume to know better than God," sounds like more of that same brainwashing. It is not compassionate or benevolent. It is arrogant and an excuse to not exert oneself to meet the needs of the person requesting help.

Comments

[lapetitediva.livejournal.com]

It is arrogant and an excuse to not exert oneself to meet the needs of the person requesting help.

I agree. To me, it sounds like such a brush-off, and a knee-jerk reaction. I'm tempted to ask folks who say that if they REALLY believe it, or if they're merely repeating what they've been told whenever they sought assistance or wondered why their prayers hadn't been answered.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

Some of them are being dismissive or are mindlessly parroting what they were told, but some of them deeply believe what they are saying. I suspect for them the idea that God is not benevolent is just as foreign to them as the idea that God *is* benevolent is to me. For whatever reason, they are able to believe God always has and always will act for our good, even when their prayers are delayed or denied. In contrast, my childhood experiences have made it impossible (so far) for me to believe in a powerful divinity who deeply loves me and would never do anything that is not best for me. That is why their words anger me rather than inspiring me. If I had a past which had convinced me that powerful people cared for the helpless, I probably would not have any problem believing the same about God.

[ruthiebgr8.livejournal.com]

For some reason people are uncomfortable when we say we're angry with God, as though that puts *us* in a bad place. I still have issues when people tell me that they know better than I do what I need. I've spent 53 years being told that and I don't like it either. It's patronizing and condescending. I *hate* that.

I still pray about my needs, because that works for me, but then I figure out a way to meet them myself. I no longer trust anyone else but me to take care of me. Works better that way.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I don't pray about my desires, because I believe my prayers have fallen on deaf ears, just like they did when I was a child and would appeal to the adults in the various areas of my life for aid. However, like you, I have learned to trust myself to meet my needs. Therapy has helped me with that; that is where I have learned (and am still learning) to discern and take care of my needs. The little girl in me may not trust anyone she perceives as powerful, but she explicitly trusts me, now.

[beautyofgrey.livejournal.com]

I went through that stage for a while... being angry... but then after a while the anger faded. I think I hold onto the anger myself. Was I really angry with G-d, or angry with myself for making the decisions I did? (Or angry at my husband for his unfair treatment of me?)

I, of course, have run away from any religion/spirituality other than a humanist perspective. I think that if there is some higher collective of sorts...it's not personal enough to be digging around in my checkbook or worrying over whether my marriage is sound/safe. I feel like life is easier when I turn that responsibility back onto the people involved, even if it requires acknowledging their fallacies.

I keep editing this because I want to make clear that these are my thoughts based on my experiences...and not something I feel you should embrace.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I am not yet clear on what I mean when I say, "I believe in God." "God" could be a sentient, closely involved divinity or an impersonal life force found in all living things. I only know I believe and am convinced through personal experience God *is* out there doing *something*...and I am angry God (whatever "God" is) did not work in the ways I expected and had been told God would work, if I behaved in certain ways. That anger may be displaced; it would make more sense for me to be angry with the people who told me those things, but that would require owning up to being angry with people who still feel very powerful to me, and that is something my therapist and I have determined I am very uncomfortable doing. There were serious consequences for owning up to such anger when I was a child...

At some point I may find refuge in a purely humanist philosphy. For right now, though, I am still emotionally attached to the Judeo-Christian ideal, despite my anger and doubts. I'm experiencing cognitive dissonance from being emotionally attached to a religious view which has spectacularly failed me, but denying that attachment only makes the cognitive dissonance worse.

In one sense, it's like how abused children and spouses often remain emotionally attached to their abusers long past the time they realize the person is undependable (of not downright dangerous). They hang onto whatever redeeming qualities they can find in the person. That is where I am with Christianity, right now.

[labellerose.livejournal.com]

**hears you**

I have some thoughts on this but I think my journal is a more appropriate place for them at this time.

You're welcome to stop by :)

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

The first crack in my faith (and I used to be pretty religious 15-17ish), even before I started studying archaeology and decided that whether there is a god or not, religion is not about him/her/it, but about human needs, was when the son of one of our teachers at school had a bad accident and was in a coma, and at mass we were supposed to pray for his recovery. And suddenly I was thinking - even if God should listen to our prayers and help him - then what about all those people who have no one to pray for them? How horribly unfair is that?

I'm still more atheist than anything else, but even on my agnostic days I don't believe in a god that meddles directly in human lives.

[ladyofthelog.livejournal.com]

I don't believe God is all powerful.

There is a choice between believing that God has power, and God is good. And I cannot believe that a God that is good would ignore your heartfelt prayers if they could be answered - and, just so, I cannot believe that God is not good.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I don't remember hearing anyone make that kind of distinction and still believe in God. Fascinating!

[ladyofthelog.livejournal.com]

It's really made an enormous difference in the way I view God. I have never felt that God is responsible for the terrible things that have happened in my life.

I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but this book (http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Before-God-Return-Disciple/dp/0819218782) is amazing and talks about this, amongst other things. The author, Bill Williams, had cystic fibrosis, and this book was written shortly before he died.

[rockbirthedme.livejournal.com]

Just about the only take I've ever heard on God's will that *didn't* make me want to scream is by an author who wrote a whole book on the subject. Summed up (the part I read, because I wasn't ready, and am still not ready, to deal with the part about forgiving God), it was, "It may be God's will, but it's still suffering. It may be that good will come of it in the end, but that doesn't justify the suffering."

From a biblical point of view, the psalmists weren't shy about telling God they'd suffered. I don't know of any records indicating that they got scorched for their presumption. And I notice Jesus was not sitting around having a friendly old conversation with God in Gethsemane. Yes, he ultimately accepted God's will, but he spent time begging and pleading about it first.

[tively-split.livejournal.com]

Dunno what to say about this. Been there, done that. Today, even. God lets it rain on good as well as on bad people. Well, I think I'm one of the more good ones, and I am good and tired of all the bleeping rain.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

Rain gets tedious after a while. I hope the sun comes out, soon.

[ennuiescapist.livejournal.com]

I believe in God and am very, very angry at God for not giving me what I repeatedly requested and desperately needed. The fact that many others seemed to get that same request granted adds insult to injury.</>

Hear, hear...! I was "agnostic" for years. The truth was that I was ANGRY.

I can relate to so much of what you've written here... How one becomes a "selfless" woman, when her thoughts and feelings are denied and discounted and sometimes even mocked, in childhood...