Xenophobia Ties My Guts In Knots

[wlotus]

Whenever I listen to Americans talk about their fellow human beings as "those people who come here from other countries and take jobs from American citizens" I feel dirty. I want to validate their frustration and anger at not being able to find a job, at being passed over for raises and promotions, or at being looked down upon by some of the immigrants they have encountered. They have that mentality because of their very real experiences; they didn't wake up one morning and randomly say, "I would like to be a xenophobe." But that "Us versus Them" mentality that leads them to say, "Go back to where you came from!" makes me sad.

Comments

[mallorys-camera.livejournal.com]

I guess every age has its own threatened apocalypse but frankly right now, the world is such a mess that it's hard for me to imagine any time being worse. Xenophobia is one factor. This whole thing about, "Don't give those illegals health care!!" has always puzzled me from a common sense point of view, given who the restaurant food prep people are in this country.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I don't see how anyone can have that viewpoint and care about human beings. We aren't talking about animals or numbers; we are talking about people. Society has gotten incredibly cold-blooded, and it grieves me more than I can say.

[syven.livejournal.com]

I think it gets to that point of frustration when they are driven there by the media who repeatedly turn their back on the fact that illegals are breaking our laws by being here. I am not against immigration - my father's family came to America and waited six years on the list to do that. My grandfather wasn't considered "skilled" - he was a baker. He worked hard and gave back to the community even though he barely spoke a word of English. He's rolling in his grave now to see American's turn their back on their laws just to be PC touchy-feely.

Less articulate people are more likely to grasp a phrase that briefly defines their anger over an out of control government making things worse day by day. Its a focus. The media plays into it and we let the media be blatantly biased toward the government through our apathy.

FYI, what I hate the most is people being prejudice against Arizona for creating an identical - to - the - Federal - law on illegal aliens and enforcing it. Yes, that's right. The law says the exact same thing that our current Federal law on illegal aliens says but you'll never hear that in the biased, Government-run media.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

What I think a lot of people fail to realize is that most illegal immigrants are not people who said, "I just feel like breaking laws, today. Let me go to America against the law just for the hell of it." Many of them are desperate to create a better life for themselves and would be happy to get legal residency...if the system was not set up to make it difficult for them to do just that.

I respect your grandfather's ability to wait on the list for six years to gain legal residency. That's a long time to wait when you and your children are fleeing a violence-riddled slum where there are no jobs, and when you have spent your meagre life's savings and taken out loans from loan sharks to put your life on the line to escape that environment. Those loan sharks want to be paid now, not in six years when you have a green card, and if they are not paid, the family members you left behind can be killed.

One size does not fit all. "Go back to where you came from!" is best applied to criminals, not hard-working people who just want a better life for themselves and their kids. From a humane perspective, the government needs to see that. But looking at each situation individually takes time and money and effort, something the government does not seem willing to spend when it comes to immigrants, particularly unskilled immigrants of color.

[syven.livejournal.com]

There are 450,000 illegals in Arizona. Some of them are kidnapping, murdering and raping Americans. Do I think all 450,000 are gang members doing that? No. But I think that the safety of American citizens on American soil comes first. Do I feel bad for the 1% of them that are hard working? Yes. Do I think 450,000 of them are hard working? Absolutely not.

In California, the "wait" list for heart transplants allows illegal aliens to have the same status as Americans. Americans die on that list because illegals get the transplants due to their number on the list - a procedure that costs American taxpayers a million dollars each.

I agree - one size does not fit all but what is stopping these people from taking their own countries back? From making their own countries great like America? I feel bad for stray dogs and cats but I know I cannot take every one of them in and give them a better life. I give money to charities to help them but I can't give them my entire paycheck. There's also a point where we have to look around and say "Why aren't we getting angry over the lack of help for the homeless and unemployed in OUR COUNTRY?"

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I would bet far more than 1% of the 450,000 undocumented immigrants are hard working. The viewpoint that the number of hard working ones is so low is sad.

I don't like the phrase "illegal aliens", because it denies our fellow human beings of their dignity as human beings. They are not aliens; they are our brothers and sisters who just happen to have been born in another country.

The health and safety of all people within our borders comes first, no matter what their immigration status may be. Americans AND undocumented immigrants die on the wait list for heart transplants. No one is more worthy of life than the next. If the honest, hard-working undocumented immigrants were able to more easily get their green cards, they would be happy, I am sure, to be part of the taxpaying public that finances heart transplant procedures. A lot of us ARE angry over the lack of help for the homeless and unemployed in our country, and a person's immigration status doesn't enter into the equation. If they are here, if they are law-abiding, if they are homeless, if they are unemployed, we ought to help them. That is the humane thing to do.

[littlemoremasks.livejournal.com]

History tells us that European expansion through the Americas plays a significant role in how this situation has come to be. If we look at anyone as anything other than deeply worthy of our care and consideration, how will we be treated when the power of empire slips from our hands into another's? These are the days when we can show mercy, trust, and gratitude. Perhaps when our prominence on the world stage passes, as it does for all mighty peoples, we can be remembered for it.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

That's definitely something to think about. America won't always be the country people want to escape to; it will one day be the country people want to escape from. At that point what goes around will come around.

[audrabaudra.livejournal.com]

It's not xenophobic to think that the US should have a regulated immigration system. Every other country on earth has control over non-citizens entering, so why shouldn't we? I've navigated the systems of two other countries (I've lived in 3 countries, counting the United States), and immigration can work to improve a country--not to be a drain on resources.

Because I immigrated legally, I had to pay thousands of dollars, fill out a multitude of forms, prove my identity, pay to have police checks run on me where I'd lived, undergo health checks to guarantee I was not bringing in any communicable diseases including tuberculosis and who knows what else, and so on.

Then my brother-in-law in Baltimore lost his construction business because companies with truckloads of illegals undercut the price of anyone who paid a living wage to their own employees.

Anyone who travels into the US from the outside knows that there are deep problems caused by our overrun system. Why is the US expected to prop the door open and allow anyone off the street to walk into our home?

A few years ago, my daughter had a Swiss friend who was in NZ on a work visa. She'd met a man and wanted to stay. She thought she should have the right to stay because she wanted the lifestyle, her job, and her relationship. Unfortunately, the country disagreed. She was welcome to go back to Switzerland, work on her qualifications and apply to come back later, but in the meantime, she did not have enough points to qualify for immigration. She was devastated. And then she had to go because her visa had run out, and if she'd overstayed, she would not have been allowed to come back into NZ in future.

NZ polices itself easily because everyone comes in via air or water. The US's problem is its wide open south border. If we did not have an unprotected border, we could control the situation; ergo, protect the border. However, many factors wage political war to ensure that we don't because many companies profit in the millions and billions of dollars through using underpaid, untaxed, unaccounted-for illegal labor. It's not wrong or an exaggeration to say that if we fixed immigration, we would be righting the wrong committed by another form of slavery that goes on every day within our country in the twenty-first century.

Last, it's a question of justice to those who want to immigrate legally. People like friend syven's family above are all over this world: named on a list, waiting, saving money, praying that their countries will let them get on the plane going to the US, where they think they've organized things enough to be let in permanently. They live on the edge of their nerves, wanting only one thing: to escape to the US, which was a beacon of hope and liberty for a long time. People like syven's father are law-abiding people who want more than anything to take part in the great experiment that is the US--not stay while the getting is good, then go back home when they can't get a cash-paying job that pays nothing into our Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment systems.

What is xenophobic about saying "Make immigration laws that protect us and APPLY them." If so many thousands of Mexicans and Central and South Americans can cross the border into the US, does anyone not think that people who wish us ill--who want to park car bombs in Times Square--have never considered using the border, too? Now, more than ever, we have to think about that great massive hole we have on our southern border and resolve to do something about it, for so many, very many reasons.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

It isn't xenophobic to say, "Make laws and apply them." (Apply them fairly, in theory, though we all know that doesn't happen.) It *is* xenophobic to blame all of this country's ills on undocumented immigrants.

I find it difficult to believe that if we can find the money to fund an invasion of another country (Iraq) that we can't find the money to implement just immigration laws. If resources are in such short supply here in the USA, why do we have the money for that? It doesn't make any sense to me. I care more about helping people than about marching into countries which pose us no threat and disrupting (or ending) the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the process.

Closing the border on the south is not going to stop terrorists from coming here, and stricter immigration laws won't stop criminals, either. They have vast networks by which they can get false papers and pay off people to let them in. The only people who are hurt by the way immigration is handled is the innocent people who want to build a better life for themselves and their families and who aren't privileged enough to have thousands of dollars to navigate the system as it stands now. I'm not saying we shouldn't close gaps, etc. just because criminals will find ways around them. But I am saying the black and white "Us vs. Them" mentality I hear many Americans expressing will not fix things.

Not only that, but it pains me to know people can be so cold-blooded towards other people.

[scream4noreason.livejournal.com]

My sister recently lived in Shanghai and she said to me upon her return that if she were born in that circumstance she would break every law she could to get out of it.

I dont see why the US govt cant negotiate work visas for a huge workforce that are willing to do the jobs it seems Americans dont want to do. But I think the US is so used to taking advantage of these people that paying them a fair wage and giving them some medical care is too kind for them to contemplate. Who says there is no slavery in modern America? These are the native peoples of the continent and a line has been drawn across the map saying where they can and cannot go. It saddened me to observe how these people were treated while I was there, as if they were invisible.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

These are the native peoples of the continent and a line has been drawn across the map saying where they can and cannot go. It saddened me to observe how these people were treated while I was there, as if they were invisible.

There is that, and I feel angry whenever I think about it. There is so much wrong with how they are treated, and that needs to be fixed first. I don't think we have a leg to stand on until we right our wrongs towards them. Then and only then are we in a moral position to talk about the costs of having them here.

There is another class of immigrants which some Americans curse and say, "Send them back to where they came from!" It's the skilled workers from places like India and China, and that is the particular group the white American I heard today was complaining about. They immigrated here legally, paid the money, waited however long it took, etc., and were eventually awarded work visas or green cards. The fellow complaining today even wants to see them go, saying they are stealing jobs from qualified Americans like him. His is an extension (but on a higher level) of the idea that there are not enough resources in this wealthy nation for everyone who wants to live and work here. It's a pervasive attitude that needs to be changed.

[audrabaudra.livejournal.com]

"There is another class of immigrants which some Americans curse and say, "Send them back to where they came from!" It's the skilled workers from places like India and China, and that is the particular group the white American I heard today was complaining about."

Oh yeah. I'm an immigrant, so yeah, I know what that's like. I get chipped fairly frequently for coming into another country, "stealing" one of the men, bringing more like me in behind, taking up a job along with my American boss--"You people are taking over!" I've been told that my country is a bully, religious nut, and should keep itself to itself. Okay, at least that's all true :-) But I've gotten elbowed and argued with from all angles in the UK and NZ for immigrating. A skilled migrant who is surplus to requirements in the eyes of some, put it that way.

I think any time any of us shifts out of our little fishbowl and moves in with people who aren't like us in every way, we will feel the ostracizing effect and the "Go back where you came from" sentiment. It's part of being an immigrant, and you simply take that as part and parcel of the decision that you've made to live among people who don't talk like you, look like you, or have your heritage and background.

Christopher, you'll understand this one: I'm dark-featured, with fair skin, but very dark-brown eyes and dark eyebrows and hair. In this land of blonde and blue-eyed British and Dutch immigrants, I'm frequently classed as being Maori somewhere along the line. When my questioner finds out I'm a Yank, it's like a betrayal. Can't win.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

The attitude against skilled immigrants is another side of the same coin. "We don't have enough, we deserve what is here more than you do, so you need to get out." Documented or undocumented, both sets of immigrants are being fed the same hostility. If it isn't fair to the skilled, documented immigrants, it isn't fair to the unskilled, undocumented immigrants. The documented immigrants could have stayed where they were and applied their thousands of dollars to building themselves up in their own country just like the undocumented could have...except the documented immigrants wouldn't have been in such desperate need to escape as the undocumented ones are.

[audrabaudra.livejournal.com]

"But I think the US is so used to taking advantage of these people that paying them a fair wage and giving them some medical care is too kind for them to contemplate. Who says there is no slavery in modern America?"

And now you've got it. Big employers and big companies retain big profits by using undocumented immigrants as a labor force. How many times has Walmart been brought up on federal charges for employing undocumented people to work as the cleaning crews at night? Doesn't stop them--the gains are worth the occasional fines.

Handle the issue with employers--"YOU document your workers because YOU know who they are. If you don't do it, we're coming to get YOU"--and see how quickly things change.

Part I

[audrabaudra.livejournal.com]

Doesn't make a bit of sense that the US can provoke a war with Iraq, pay for it at the cost of millions of dollars and God knows how many Iraqi lives, and refuse to spend on domestic programs to compensate for the vast disparities in opportunity and income in the US. I know that our poor and underprivileged are still better off than many others around the globe, but when our concentration of wealth has gone so far and so much to the few, we have a problem. Our gov't is corporate welfare; banks and big companies take risks, tank themselves, and are rescued--socializing losses, privatizing profits. Something's got to give. The gulf between have's and have-not's is ruthless capitalism out of control, and it is destabilizing. Rather than address it, the system would prefer to have the white working-class distracted with wars and yellow ribbons and, yes, blaming illegals for all of the economic ills when the ills are from laissez-faire capitalism which the bastards have had the run of for nearly 40 years.

But allowing people to flood in illegally and become fodder for laissez-faire cannons isn't going to sort the economic problems.

As far as people wanting a better life--I understand. Mexico is a mess because of the US's ridiculous drug laws. We've created a war zone, and it doesn't look like anyone is doing much to help. But how are we going to maintain relative prosperity and have the dosh to help when we've got millions of unskilled people not paying federal taxes? In a society built on services, consumerism, and technology, how do we keep the unskilled in jobs? We already have vast swaths of underemployed people--underemployment is more of a problem than unemployment. Is there a reason for the underemployment? Do we need more unskilled labor on top of the underemployment?

At the end of the day, immigration is meant to fulfill the needs of the country and build the workforce through skills. the US does let in a number of unskilled workers from different areas of the globe. It would be nice to let people in because they like the country, but it's not possible. The US's immigration policies are applied to anyone who can't make it over a border undetected. You can have mad skills, like being a qualified nurse, but your qualifications don't count in the US if you're from Country X or Y. In the modern world, it's the nature of immigration to select and choose among applicants. The US's immigration system is not supposed to be for economic refugees, and no country can afford to prop open the door and say, "Come on in!"

As far as saying, "The only people who are hurt by the way immigration is handled is the innocent people who want to build a better life for themselves and their families and who aren't privileged enough to have thousands of dollars to navigate the system as it stands now." But many illegals have thousands of dollars to pay the people-movers who get them into the country and arrange their illegal paperwork for them. Report after report tells us how much money changes hands, so why don't folks use that money to better their lives by starting a business at home or spend it on their children? If they want to immigrate, why don't they use those thousands of dollars to navigate the system properly? Is it because the system is meant to have rules and stops in place to prevent precisely what is going on?

As far as criminals coming in, true, that will happen. And locks on doors only stop the honest people. But there's no point in making it easy for the bad guys by leaving your garage opening and the keys in the door while you leave for the weekend, is there?

Part II

[audrabaudra.livejournal.com]

I would LOVE to live in Italy. Absolutely LOVE it, and I think I deserve to go there and make a life for myself because I want to. I have nothing that Italy requires--I don't even speak the language--but I want to live there because I think I have a right. Does that mean I should be able to overstay my visa in Italy, take up residence where it suits me, figure out enough Italian to go around and offer to work for a little bit of cash in hand and take cleaning jobs from Italian women--then accuse the Italians of not wanting to work? But that would be okay because I wanted a better way of life, so what I want to do trumps all laws and treats the will of Italy's people with contempt. No, that's ridiculous when you look at it like that. What gives me the right to say I can do what pleases me, without regard to anything that's going on in the other country?

Of course, administration and bureaucracy and immigration systems are cold-blooded. They have to be. Or are meant to be, at times, and in certain cases. The US has failed to publicly articulate a philosophy toward immigration in the twenty-first century. It's not racist or rotten to say that we can only absorb so much of unskilled labor comprised of second-language speakers in any area at any one time. That's only common sense, but it's gotten all emotional--you're right about that--and people are all whacked out.

Brings us back to the beginning: the US has big problems, and the populace knows it. Perhaps we should all move beyond blame and look for solutions. We hang together, or we shall hang separately, for sure.

Re: Part II

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

I see what you are saying. But the United States has no moral leg to stand on. The nation has so much, takes so much from others, has taken so much from the natives of this land, and now wants to shut the doors on anyone else who wants to come in? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Once those injustices are corrected, I will be more likely to listen to arguments in favor of tightening immigration laws that make life harder for people who already have it hard.

[greenminions.livejournal.com]

I can't understand how the descendants of European immigrants can complain about this. Their ancestors came here and took land and resources from the indigenous peoples who were here first and still remain today but unfortunately in much reduced numbers and frequently in terrible circumstances. This land was not theirs to take just for the sake of imperialistic expansion.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

The irony of this fact does not escape me, either. Granted, I don't think it is fair to blame their descendants for what their forefathers did, but it should be cause for a more compassionate stance than what I tend to hear from some of them.

[queenlyzard.livejournal.com]

Word.

[queenlyzard.livejournal.com]

Also-- most of the comments here make me very sad. I'm tempted to reply to some of them, but I'm not sure I can do so politely, so I'd better ask you first: do you mind me tearing a few people a new one, or would you rather I just went away quietly?

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

You may reply to any comments you wish, but keep it polite. If you aren't sure you can do that, please don't comment.

[wlotus.livejournal.com]

You are, however, welcome to vent as vehemently as you wish in private messages to me. :-)